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I want to offer you all a break for a moment and also turn to Mr. Swartz. Normally, we would have had two panels, but we really did not recognize exactly how the Senate would certainly be operating today, so in an initiative to make certain we obtained through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you aim out in your statement and your statements that the treaty with Bermuda additionally punctures financial institution privacy as well as gives a mechanism for us obtaining the details we require. There have been some common lawful assistance treaties which contain stipulations relevant straight to sharing bank records or various other financial information.

That was an arrangement that was composed and embraced in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, arrangement's possible for feasible requesting party asking for seek information look for details whether an account exists in the requested country, nation in the case of instance E.U., one of the requested member asked for. After that, the request, if there is an identification of an account, have to be adhered to up via a standard shared legal assistance treaty.

As well as with regard to Bermuda, our document of collaboration has actually been great. We think that the document we carry the manufacturing of documents, including bank documents, is such that we are positive that the provisions consisted of in this shared lawful help treaty, which do call for cooperation on the production of documents, will certainly be adequate to make certain that we obtain the documents we require for our economic investigations and other examinations.

A few other MLATs additionally enable immediate, non-written kind requests to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it has to be in written form. Any reason why that provision was not included in this contract? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it holds true that the Shared Legal Help Treaty does need requests in written type, it was the judgment of the arbitrators that it sufficed that, in this instance, with respect to Bermuda, we would have the ability to acquire quick feedbacks to our requests as well as also give such feedbacks to Bermuda's requests, specifically since we have a practice already established that will proceed, our team believe, under the treaty of being able to convey those demands with email or with fax.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda stood up to that since they intended to make certain that the requests were clear as well as in an extra official means. Yet in the arrangements, it likewise ended up being clear that they accepted that such demand could be made by fax or by e-mail. The genuine issue they were concerned about was not finding a rapid ways to make a request, yet actually just taking dental requests off the table.

We're confident that we've got the means in area that we can make immediate demands of them in a way that will certainly be effective. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I could include, actually, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral demands, in technique, it's extremely unusual that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. My major worry is simply, in immediate matters, that it's not delayed. And also with modern-day communication, it seems to me that can possibly be dealt with. I'm more worried regarding financial institution documents. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of comments on the bank documents problem? Mr. Johnson. Once more, not specifically on the bank issue.

The difference in between having the ability to do a dental request or being able to utilize one of these various other extremely fast means, we think, is not consequential. Legislator Cardin. There've been some concerns raised concerning the competence of Bermuda law with respect to forfeitures of proceeds and also agencies of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Shared Legal Support Treaty in Article 17 does obligate Bermuda to give assistance to the United States in process connecting to forfeiture of proceeds and agencies of crime, to the degree allowed by the law of Bermuda.

We've had two instances of successful ask for restriction as well as forfeiture of possessions. Both instances were a success as well as we were able to acquire the funds. As a general issue, help is offered under the laws of Bermuda, and also I do think that is essential to stress and anxiety, with regard to freezing, taking, and also restraining assets, including for issues connecting to terrorism and terrorism financing.

It should be noted that forfeit support is not restricted to what is permitted under Bermuda's domestic legislation. With regard to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not forfeit a specific agency of nondrug offenses, since that power doesn't exist locally. Again, that's limited to instrumentalities in nondrug offense situations.

Legislator Cardin. In the Bermuda contract, there's a provision that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can deny cooperation in capital situations.

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Are we hindered as an outcome of that or is there a means in which we are able to coordinate under this treaty, also in those cases? Mr. Chairman, we think and we hope we still would be able to coordinate.

Actually, we have that experience with various other nations that have actually put comparable analyses on the common lawful aid duties, and also we have actually had the ability to work out plans in a variety of situations that permit us to get proof or go over whether the proof is substantial enough to move forward with some sort of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I might simply include in that, one of the factors this treaty took as long it did to negotiate and also end is because it was essential to us to make certain that there had not been an express constraint on support in funding cases in the treaty itself.

Swartz pertaining to you. And also that way we think that helps preserve the concept that's crucial to us, that such cooperation must be readily available, irrespective of the kind of case. As well as we believe this has additionally borne out with some other nations, where despite similar issues concerning collaboration in funding situations, they have, for instance, had the ability to give assistance to the nonpenalty phase of a trial or an additional celebration examination.

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Senator Cardin. They do hold the right under this treaty to refute collaboration where the United States criminal justice system is looking for funding penalty? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not supply aid if contrast public policy or their vital passions, and also they have actually informed us that they translate that to enable them, in fatality penalty instances, to work out that.

Legislator Cardin. I comprehend that. I simply wished to make it clear that they would not be an infraction of the treaty. We recognize their interpretation, that if there was a situation pending right here that we needed their aid, where, clearly, the prosecutors were looking for the death sentence, Bermuda can decide not to work together under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

Swartz. If I might state, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would call for, since this would certainly be a denial under Write-up 3 of the treaty, that initially there had to be appointments with the United States, before that denial can move forward. And also I believe that's a crucial element of the settlement that Mr.

Rather than having a specific stipulation, this is among a collection of conditions under which assistance might be rejected after appointment, and, to name a few points, that there should be factor to consider regarding whether support can be offered, subject to such conditions as the requested country regards essential. And also our experience in that regard has actually been that we frequently can discover suitable assurances to allow evidence to be generated, at the very least for preliminary evaluation of the relevance of proof in the case overall.

As well as I assume that would be practical for us to have that details in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient task here, because this agreement was previously authorized by this committee. As I said in my opening, we approved it too late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any significant changes in our investment partnership with Rwanda because last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen since last November is a boost in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and I can give you a few examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant hotel in Kigali. And, likewise, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the country's expanding friendliness sector. So I would certainly claim that, given this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is essential that the defenses be afforded for them.

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capitalists. Legislator Cardin. I thanks for that (foreign tax credit). You additionally pointed out the reality that the United States is discovering other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you pointed out one other nation. I assume we have 5 existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show us various other countries that the United States has shown passion in working out treaties? Ms.

Legislator Cardin. Thanks. I've been informed by the staff that I ought to ask the question of whether the administration still supports the Us senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, considering that it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Legislator Cardin.



I assume that finishes the examining. I do appreciate your patience with the committee and also thank you really much for your testimony today.

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As set out listed below, we would like to give updated information on reported U.S. financial investment task in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And also I assume that would be handy for us to have that information in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. We 'd rejoice to provide that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient work right here, because this arrangement was previously authorized by this board. As I said in my opening, we accepted it too late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any significant modifications in our financial investment relationship with Rwanda since last November when you provided testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen considering that last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, and also I can provide you a few instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And, likewise, Marriott Hotels is going in to help with the nation's expanding hospitality market. So I would say that, provided this pattern of enhanced investment, that it is essential that the securities be afforded for them.

investors. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You also discussed the truth that the United States is checking out other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I believe you stated one other nation. I believe we have 5 present bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show us various other countries that the United States has revealed interest in working out treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thanks. I have actually been told by the team that I must ask the question of whether the administration still sustains the Senate passage of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. For the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We definitely do. Senator Cardin.

I believe that completes the questioning. We might have some extra concerns for the record. As you know, the record remains open for 24-hour, so you obtain a break. That's a pretty fast turn-around time for this committee. I do appreciate your patience with the committee and thank you really a lot for your testimony today.

As set out below, we would like to supply upgraded info on reported U.S. investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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